Follow-up to previous entry from earlier this evening

[mbranesf]

I have had the opportunity to encourage several more editors to beware of the first-rights-reselling writer discussed in my earlier post, just in the short time it's been up. But meanwhile, over on the M-Brane blog, I was taken to task thus by one "Geraldo":

"You only pay $10.00? That's less than a cheeseburger deluxe. You really should pay professional rates, or at the very least strive to pay semi-pro rates or a decent flat fee. Sometimes writers make a living at this, and it's a known fact that, in some circumstances, reprints can be submitted for the lifetime of a writer's career. How can a writer live on ten dollars? Unless you are just a hobbyist publication, then it is understandable."

My reply there to this comment was perhaps overly harsh, especially the concluding "give up on your dream" statement, but I am admittedly rather prickly about this topic. Yeah, sure, I'd love to pay more for fiction for M-Brane, and I would if I could. And I expect to be able to do so one day. But as things stand right now, the thing makes no money at all (literally zero revenue in the last month), and I subsidize its minimal costs out of pocket and I don't even have to fucking do it! I do it out of love, same reason writers write short stories. Pay the bills? Make a living? On short fiction? Give up that dream right now.

Comments

[silviamg.livejournal.com]

Pay rates have nothing to do with etiquette. There's token markets and pro-markets and semi-pro.

I've sold more than one reprint. But I've looked for publications that take them, and informed them that it is a reprint. It's just a simple case of following the guidelines. I always ask if there's no clear info on reprints.

Btw, I've been paid pro-rates for fiction and you can't make a living off it just doing short fiction.

I'll make more money off the average non-fiction article, and it's usually far shorter than a fic piece.

[derekjgoodman.livejournal.com]

The ten dollars I make from selling stories to M-Brane is a nice little treat here and there. I've long ago learned that writing is something you do because you love it, not because you expect to live off it. If I'm lucky, I can occasionally use it to pay a bill.

Also, Geraldo is paying way too much for a cheeseburger deluxe. That better be one hell of a cheeseburger, man.

Great Solution

[cbcalsing.blogspot.com (from livejournal.com)]

He must not scan the deadlines list at Duotrope often enough to know that most publications pay nothing, particularly when it comes to fiction. To get anything --- even a pat on the back -- for doing what we love should be enough. And if he was a good enough writer to be making pro rates, he'd know better than to complain too, because now he's alienated himself from a market completely.

[micheleis.livejournal.com]

Um... Okay, let me preface: I'm totally supportive of M-Brane and of you Chris. I love talking to you on Twitter and I understand how hard it is running a zine, especially in this economic environment. I strongly believe that there is a place for token paying hobbyist markets, because some people are just looking to write as a hobby and token payment and copies are just as satisfying for the level of work and interest they want to/can put into it. There is nothing wrong with hobbyists, or token pay hobbyist markets, and they absolutely should be taken just as seriously as major publications. (First rights means first rights. You know upfront how much you're making from it and if you're not okay with that just don't submit.)

Writing does seem to be moving toward the "Can't support you, but the money is a nice bonus" arena, especially for those in the up and coming category. I'm skeptical of any writing being able to support a person these days (especially since some things we need/do in today's culture, like insurance and paying taxes are just a nightmare to handle as freelancers).

But there's a HUGE difference between "Hey, we're a hobbyist market, in it primarily for the love, but offering token payment because it's the the right thing to do" and "To get anything --- even a pat on the back -- for doing what we love should be enough." Pardon me, but no it's not. What kind of an idiot would I be if I took a mass market paperback deal for a pat on the back. This while idea has for years been used to take advantage of the author so the publisher can make money in certain forums. Encouraging writers to be happy that they got anything at all is keeping them ignorant and taking advantage of them, period.

We all have different goals in writing. If your goal is just to be published, to get your work out there you can't go wrong with a zine like M-Brane, where the editor takes his work and the genre seriously. It is a nice little bonus to get good pay and copies for your shelves.

But if your goal is to grow a career then token pay and copies isn't enough (or quickly becomes not enough). You have to become a hard ass and know what you can get for your work and demand it. I started off as a hobbyist, and it was great, but I wanted more and I never would have gotten it if I didn't demand it from both myself (as far as quality goes) and the markets I submit to (as far as exposure, pay and respect goes). Now that I know I can sell shorts for pro or semi pro money to pro and semi pro markets it would make no sense at all for me to settle for a pat on the back and it's insulting to suggest that a writer in that position should.

This year I've made enough to to pay for my membership for WFC and my hotel, with a little on the side. That's not "money to live off of" but it has made a huge difference and given me the ability to go to the con when I probably wouldn't have be able to on my own. That's nothing to dismiss, and nothing a pat on the back would have helped with.

[joycemocha.livejournal.com]

NO, I don't think you were too harsh about your response. His commentary was best aimed at a publisher who flat-out says that "exposure is your only payment." I don't submit to those markets, whereas I will submit to markets that pay something, even if it's just a pittance. There's a honking huge difference in attitude between the two, and some editor who says "Exposure is your only payment" isn't someone I want to work with. I'd much rather stake a gamble on a newer magazine and editor in the hopes that this person and magazine will rise over the years and I'll be part of it. Give me a chance at something that could be an award winner and yeah, I'll go for it.

Like most writers, I do start at the top and work my way through the markets. However, I'm also at the point in quantity of short stories to market in my inventory where I have a bunch of stories to sell, and not enough of the higher paying markets to submit them to. That means I'm looking at smaller markets, especially given the timing of submission processes. Am I going to sit on inventory and wait for higher paying markets to open up? No. That's stupid. The best goal is to keep the work circulating.

I have a problem with one comment here where the writer dismisses M-Brane as a market for those who just want to get published. Not all of us write in the style favored by the higher-paying markets, nor have all of us reached the exalted position where we can sell everything we write to a higher market. While I understand the argument, I disagree with his conclusions, partially because I do know midlist, intermediate-level, successful writers who disagree with him. Not every well-regarded market out there pays the higher rate, and editors have developing careers, just like writers do. Scorning the smaller markets may mean missing out on the rising career of an editor who may well end up in the top ranks later on. I'll happily take a smaller payment to work with someone who puts out a quality product which may, eventually, lead to something bigger (and yes, M-Brane strikes me as one of those possibilities).

Essentially, in a writing career, you have to take the long point of view. Writing fiction is unlikely to ever give any but a small handful the amount of money to live on. If I want to seriously make money that makes a difference, I'll be adding nonfiction to my string of work (which is going to be happening if my day job remains at part time hours). I've seen friends who've gone from making a decent living at writing fiction to not making much, if any money, from it at all. Did their writing suddenly decline in quality? No. The markets changed, and with that change, the niche those persons occupied went away.

The only sure money-maker in writing is in nonfiction, period. If money is your priority, then you're not writing genre fiction. You're writing nonfiction, and lots of it.

[bondo-ba.livejournal.com]

Ignore these people. At $10 for subs M-Brane is a great little mag. You've got some excellent writers in there, and it always looks great. The important thing is to keep markets going until they find their feet!

Of course, the guy who sold you a reprint as original material needs to be shot, but that's just one of those things!

[mbranesf.livejournal.com]

Thanks for all the comments, everyone, and I appreciate the support. As for the pay rate with M-Brane, it is what it is, and is not likely to change immediately. I understand that a lot of writers won't submit to such a low-paying market, but so be it. It's also a fact that I publish all the time writers who have indeed sold to pro markets. But there just aren't very many pro markets for short fiction, so it stands to reason that I will occasionally get hold of material that probably ought to be in such a place but just isn't going to make it for whatever reason. I guess what bugs me most about Geraldo's remarks is the implication that I only pay a token rate out of cheapness or ineptitude and that I should just start paying more, as if it were that simple. What also irritates me is the fact that he commented on it at all, as if it's somehow an open topic for discussion. If a writer doesn't like my guidelines and terms, then they shouldn't submit. Why the need to discuss it? There are scads of other zines around.